The Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition EULA states I’m under no obligation to accept the operating system and can receive a refund if I don’t want it, “if applicable.”  The exact wording of the EULA implies that the retailer gives the refund, but this Microsoft site confirms it is the manufacturer’s (Samsung’s) responsibility.  For good measure I contacted Microsoft and got the same information straight from the horse’s mouth.

I emailed Samsung twice, a few days apart, two weeks ago.  I received no reply.  Then last week I called them only to be told that Samsung could do nothing more than acknowledge the receipt of my emails.  As for the refund . . . well it was strictly “no comment.”

Update (Dec. 2): I called Samsung again today and after being put on hold was told that a refund is not possible because the specifications let me know in advance that Windows was part of the package. After I explained that the EULA offers a refund the support specialist told me his supervisor would call me back within a day.

Update (Dec. 2): The previous service specialist’s supervisor, Paul, called me as promised to tell me that he had it straight from “upper management in Korea” that users could not receive Windows refunds on the grounds that the package is a bundle. He specifically cited the “if applicable” clause in the EULA.
Also, I chatted with Microsoft Support and sent them an email asking point blank whether their agreement with OEM license distributors requires they give refunds. Previously (above) I asked whether it was Samsung’s or the retailer’s responsibility, but did not ask whether Microsoft considers the refund an entitlement. The answer should be very interesting.

Update (Dec. 10): I have spent the last week making inquiries to Microsoft support.  Most of the correspondence is too painful to post here, consisting of my asking clear questions and receiving completely irrelevant replies.  After some work though, I did finally get this information  by email:

Whether Samsung is obligated to provide a refund or not:

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Regarding this issue, I would like to explain that Microsoft has contract with third party computer providers. That third party pay for the copyright of Windows XP and they can customize this operating system and sell it to their own customers. Hence, this is a new system other than the Windows XP copy released by Microsoft.

Legally, this is a new product from the third party manufacturer. Hence, they have their own rights to price the product. As a result, they have their own rights to judge if the product can be refunded.

In most cases, the preinstalled OS are installed as a Free product to the end users. Hence, it may not be refunded by the computer manufacturer.

This reply is very telling, and has convinced me that the commonly held idea in the Linux world that recipients of pre-installed copies of Windows are entitled to a refund is fallacious.  It is based on nothing more than a misreading of the EULA that leaves out the “if applicable” clause.  There is nothing in your agreement with the manufacturer or the manufacturer’s agreement with Microsoft that requires a refund, at least from the information I have gathered.  The only remaining argument concerns the manufacturer’s right to “bundle” products.  The legality of that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction so any analysis of that subject would not be universal like the EULA or Microsoft OEM Windows distribution contracts with manufacturers.

after rejecting the EULA

after rejecting the EULA

16 Comments

    • Harold the Barrel
    • Posted December 12, 2008 at 5:49 pm
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    Too bad Microsoft gave you the runaround, but it seems that once they actually decided to give you an honest, rational answer it makes it plain and clear that it’s up to the manufacturer whether you get a refund or not. Score one for the douchebags, I guess. Good work you’re doing with ubuntu, I look forward to using your writeups to turn my new nc10 into a badass ibex, too.

  1. Perhaps the rest of the EULA is not ‘applicable’ then. Seems as though you’re being forced to accept terms you’re unable to comply with; a dodgy contract in my opinion.

  2. You are not the only person to get the runaround from MS and I admire your perseverence. For my part, I have kept XP as it “just works” without any of the hassle I have with Ubuntu. Not that I’m a newcomer to Ubuntu / Linux – it’s just that I have always found that device support on XP is better (no matter what the Linux enthusuiasts say – and I’m one of those too). There’s always going to be an odd device you can’t get going with Linux (Lexmark printers spring to mind here), so I have kept XP on mine as a backup.

  3. This implies that the EULA you accept is a contract between you and Micro$oft, even though the software is not theirs, it’s a “new product from the OEM manufacturer”. That doesn’t sound right.

  4. You should try speaking with a lawyer. Once Samsung see that you are serious about it, they might change their mind.

  5. Samsung’s reply that “you knew that you were buying a product with XP”, doesn’t stand. You were unable to be informed about the terms of the contract between you and Microsoft, before buying the netbook. When you chose to disagree with the terms of the contract between you and Microsoft, you found use for you hardware with another operating system, which is perfectly fine.

    Samsung cannot force consumers as to the OS used with their hardware; they would be practically endorsing the monopoly of Microsoft.

    Do you live in an EU country? If that’s the case, then you can contact EU authorities, which are very strict about consumer protection and monopolies.

    Check these:

    http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/

    http://www.isitfair.eu/

  6. > That third party pay for the copyright of Windows XP and they can customize this operating system and sell it to their own customers. Hence, this is a new system other than the Windows XP copy released by Microsoft.

    Nope. That person hasn’t the first clue what they’re talking about, and is 100% certainly not authorized to speak on Microsoft’s behalf about matters of copyright licensing and legalities.

    I’d bet a new car on it.

  7. First sale doctrine, baby. Either XP was sold under a contract of sale defined in a EULA, or it was not. One or the other.

    If sold by contract/EULA, they are encumbered by its terms as much as you are, and you have legal right to claim your refund.

    If XP was sold as a chattel good, then they have the right to refuse a refund, but then you are the (unencumbered) owner of this copy of XP. You have the right to re-sell your copy on Ebay for whatever price you get. When Samsung claims XP is bundled with the computer, which is clearly chattel, they are claiming XP is chattel.

    So the next step is to list your copy of XP for sale. When M$ predicably forces a take-down, you have a paper trail showing that your copy was sold as chattel. If you win against M$ (not likely), then you win. If you lose, you now have grounds to sue Samsung for fraudulently mispresenting their merchandise: they offered it as chattel when in fact they did not have license (from M$) to do so.

  8. Please do pursue this if you can. It could really set a precedent and help more people see sense and get good free software.

  9. Its all a moot point. If the software is bundled “free” there can be no refund. You don’t need to accept the freebie. But you don’t get a refund on any part of the price if you refuse it. No matter what the value would have been had you bought it separately at full price.

  10. I would like to share my thoughts, as a successful Windows refundee.

    The refund procedure is based on the EULA clause which states that “If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, [...] you should promptly contact Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused product(s) in accordance with Manufacturer’s return policies.” The EULA of Vista OEM has slightly different wording – “If you do not accept [these terms], [...] contact the manufacturer or installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit.”

    The EULA’s of OEM systems are agreements between “you” and “the manufacturer”, and Microsoft imposes the manufacturers with full responsibility on all refund issues. Usually, the manufacturers try to escape the imposed refunding obligations, as returning unused copied of Windows to Microsoft is probably impossible. Therefore, the manufacturers give hard time to customers who wish to use their right for a refund, and to get a refund you must be willing to address the court.

    Microfost claim that “the preinstalled OS are installed as a Free product to the end users” is nonsense, as courts around the world ruled that the price of the OS is equivalent to the market price of the OS. Also, Microsoft is not allowed to give any discount to large manufacturers according to their settlement with the DOJ.

    The second claim, that “the manufacturers have their own rights to judge if the product can be refunded” is more interesting. A similar claim came out in the Italian court, and the judge ruled that “to determine their return policy” does not mean that a return policy may not be in place.

    As I see it, you had two mistakes. The first one is that you must be willing to take the case to small claims court, as Samsung will not voluntarily provide you with a refund. The second mistake is that all correspondence must be I writing and sent using registered mail. Otherwise, Samsung might say they didn’t receive your refund request. So my suggesting is to be bold: Send them a registered letter stating that (a) you bought a NC10, (b) after reading the EULA you decided not to accept it, (c) you request a full refund according to the EULA, and (d) you are willing to take the case to court if your request is ignored. Don’t waste time with phone calls, as they don’t count as evidence unless you record them.

  11. Hi,

    I live in Denmark and has just contacted Samsung Denmark about a refund.

    They told me that I could get a refund, but that I had to pay for service to delete my harddrive.

    He said that service would probably be more expensive than what I could gain from the refund.

    I go to the service center and talk to them soon.

  12. What a mess, why not just have two models with one having the so called ‘free’ Microsoft OS, and the other having the manufacturers ‘own’ Unix based OS, or no OS at all. That way everyone would have a choice. > Keeping the NC10 XP on a DVD just in case and demolishing the HDD with Debian, MUAHAHAHAA!

    • Matthias-Christian Ott
    • Posted November 2, 2009 at 11:04 am
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    I asked Samsung in Germany for a Windows refund for a NC130 and I was told that I could only return the entire device. See https://wiki.fsfe.org/WindowsTaxRefund/Germany#Fall_.5BH.5D_Matthias-Christian_Ott (German) for details.

  13. I’m curious, has anyone tried going the route of contacting Samsung about purchasing a computer without any software pre-installed instead of asking for a refund after the fact?


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